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Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek.

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Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek.

Chris Walker
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek.

Rick Steele
Nice Chris,

Don't you wish that you could ride up the canyon that way today? I do.
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek.

Jeff Ramsey
As John Hammond, the former  Georgetown Loop Trainmaster would say, "Highway 6 CAREFULLY preserves the Colorado & Central grade beneath".
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek.

Chris Walker
In reply to this post by Rick Steele
Well in as much as I'd like to have seen a D&S type operation here, I'm still happy the Canyon isn't under water, and that every visit to the US I can do my Pilgrimage Up Clear Creek.  Not too fussed on the destination at one end anymore.
UpSideDownC
in New Zealand
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Chris Walker
This post was updated on .
I'm surprised that no-one has posted this before, another un-published picture of the C&S.  This is at the former site of Beaver Brook some time after the Structures have been removed, only the rock features pinpoint this location.



I would love to know the story behind this obviously unscheduled stop, has the Handcar been set loose by mischief makers or is it more likely that the section gang has flagged the train here?  Could be they are somewhat behind in their trackwork or maybe they have found an obstruction in the form of loose rock further around the curve?  The number of men on the ground may attest to the latter.


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll21/id/14471/rv/singleitem
UpSideDownC
in New Zealand
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Jim Courtney
Same engine, same canon scenery, different consist, in the last days of Silver Plume to Denver passenger service:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42454/rv/singleitem/rec/21


May 29, 1927
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Chris Walker
That picture was published in the Narrow Gauge to Central and Silver Plume, CRRA #10 1972.   Otto also caught that consist up on the High Bridge that same day.
UpSideDownC
in New Zealand
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Ken Martin
In reply to this post by Chris Walker
Chris,

Missed this the first time but interesting photo. Engine 7, Baggage 4 without the sheathing used later, Coach 77, and a St. Charles/AC&F coach 71-76, can't really tell the number.

Ken Martin
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"Unseen Clear Creek Passenger Service" -- Part 1

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Chris Walker
You mean these, Chris?


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/42449/rec/5




http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/42450/rec/46


Both May 29, 1927.  The end is neigh for Clear Creek passenger service.


A couple of years earlier, number 7 arrives east bound at Clear Creek Junction with a different consist, no RPO-coach but the second coach is number 59, with the large windows:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/42447/rec/29


July 12, 1925.

Jeff, the switch stand has a marker on the mast!

Three years earlier, the same consist (but rearranged) arrives from Silver Plume behind number 7 at the same location:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42446/rv/singleitem/rec/79


October 1, 1922.


It's a shame that passenger service on Clear Creek ended as early as it did.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Robert McFarland
Isn't the combine one of the rebuilt Pullmans?
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Keith Hayes
Robert, that is indeed one of the Pullmans that was rebuilt into a combination mail-coach. I suspect it is the 42, as this car appears to be the most photographed, and the space between the paired windows is equal.

Baggage car 1 or 2 is distinctive as a short-ish 37 foot car in a train of over forty footers! What neat images. The reason we all model the C&Sng--a great-looking train that is three cars long.

Jim, whyizzit that baggage and mail cars all got trucks with cast steel frames and inside hung brakes? I spose one could model this with PBL trucks by clipping off the top beam ears and the diagonal strap and removing the brake beam???
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Jim Courtney
In reply to this post by Robert McFarland
Yes Robert, the RPO coaches 40-43 were rebuilt Pullmans:





Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Keith Hayes
I take back what I said: perhaps the mail car in the first two images is the shy 41? Why? Well 40 has the wide panel between the first pair of windows, and 42 seems to have evenly spaced light vents on the roof. The car on the trestle appears to have more distance between the aft roof vents towards the rear of the car. Any takers?
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Ken Martin
In reply to this post by Robert McFarland
No, this is not a rebuilt Pullman, this is Mail-coach #40, it was built new to replace the pullmans that were destroyed in the 1906 6th street fire. It is detectable by the roof on the coach end as it comes out straight. The rebuilt pullmans had a down turned end.

Ken Martin
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek.

Ken Martin
In reply to this post by Chris Walker
Boy, while I am responding three others respond.

The Baggage with the mail-coach is Baggage #2, identifiable by counting the clerestory windows and the steps for the baggage doors are bolted on the outside.

The baggage with the two coaches is Baggage #1, identifiable as it has more clerestory windows and the steps for the baggage door curve under the car body.

The trucks with inside hung brakes are 5' 6". I have found them under cars 13, 26, 40-43, 53, 54, 57, 58, 59, 80-83. Baggage Mail 10-12 had 5' trucks.

I have a copy of a C&S drawing for a "Cast Steel Truck N.G. Passenger Cars" #1440 showing the 5' 6" truck so I think they were in the slow process of upgrading the trucks on the cars.

The C&S also had some 6' trucks from the Pullman cars they were under cars 61, 62, 78, 79, 910, 911. As 78 & 79 were Pullman built they came with 6' trucks.

Ken Martin
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"Unseen Clear Creek Passenger Service" -- Part 2

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Jim Courtney
Since it appears that Chris's original thread has morphed into "Unseen Clear Creek Passenger Service", I thought I'd throw out a few more images.

After WWI excursion traffic up Clear Creek to the Loop and Silver Plume dwindled, the public preferring weekend auto outings thanks to Mr. Ford's product. The Argentine Central excursions ceased after 1917, and the Sunrise Peak aerial tram closed in 1915.

The mainstay of Clear Creek passenger service after 1920 was trains 52-53, the daily "down" local from Silver Plume to Denver and return. It departed Silver Plume at 7:05 AM (8:10AM on Sundays as train 56) and left Denver at 3:15PM, arriving back at Silver Plume after dark at 6:50 PM. The above photos of number 7 that I posted are all likely train 52. The 2-6-0 power spent the night in the open at Silver Plume during its layover. There was an ash pit at Silver Plume on the mainline just west of the depot to allow ashes to be dropped.


Sanborn image, dated 1926.  Only two cars today, the mail likely handled in the combine.


In a long ago post on the C&Sn3 Blog, Derrell Poole posted a photo of likely the same train pulled up to the depot at Silver Plume, awaiting departure for Denver:

http://coloradosouthern.blogspot.com/2014/06/ropers-snapshot-saturday-no6.html

The combine appears to be number 30.


In the summer time, from 1921 to 1926, there appears to have been enough remaining excursion traffic to restore the second "up train" from Denver to Silver Plume and return  (trains 55-56), usually from May 31st to October 1st. The train laid over at the Silver Plume wye, allowing the excursionists to have lunch at the C&S Pavilion next to the wye. During the summer, RPO traffic was handled on the up train, and RPO 13 was common in the consist.


Ducca photograph, dated 1926.



Photographer unknown, dated 1926 (I bought this image on eBay).

This, 1926, is the last summer that the "up train" operated. In the second photo, number 8 still has its "intermediate" tender, and coach 59 is again in the consist. Both number 5 and number 7 still have their wood slat pilots mounted to a steel pilot beam.  Number 7 in the 1926 image above already has a modern steel tube pilot.


There was another "unseen" scheduled bit of passenger service at Silver Plume in the 1920s, the Burleigh Tunnel's tourist mine tram ride (another reason for the "up train" 55-56 to layover at Silver Plume). The fare to ride 3,000 feet into the mountain via the tunnel in a modified tram car was 50 cents. The train was a name train, the "Groundhog". Motive power was the Tarkington locomotive, a rebuilt Ford model-T:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/34400/rv/singleitem/rec/1


The "passenger car" was un-numbered/un-named, but had reversible seats for the trip out, back to daylight.


Next to the tail of the C&S wye, the Burleigh Tunnel owners built the rustic clock tower depot for the "Groundhog", that Harry Brunk first introduced to us:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/3640/rec/1
 

The depot, like those of the Maine Two-footers, was a covered depot.  Note the main track for the "Groundhog's" departure behind the support posts. Only three passengers today?


Before the downturn in mining, the Burleigh Tunnel actually mined ore and had a large mill:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/347/rec/35

View from the Sunrise Peak tram, c1910. The bridge that carried the C&S tail of the wye over Clear Creek is just over the "S" of Silver Plume. Later, it would become a vital link in the Route of the Groundhog.



Claustrophobic excursionists could take lunch during the layover at the C&S Pavilion, built c1901-1902, or stroll the picnic grounds:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/77719/rec/154



After Clear Creek passenger service ceased, the C&S Pavilion was sold to a local restaurateur, and the iconic building lost its dignity:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/3652/rec/8


That looks like a stuffed chicken strapped to the tree, below the neon sign. An important modeling detail for your Leadville café or beer-joint, Keith.


References:

Cornelius W. Hauck, Narrow Gauge to Central and Silver Plume; Colorado Rail Annual 10, Colorado Railroad Museum, 1972.

P.R. Griswold, et al, Georgetown and the Loop, Rocky Mountain Railroad Club, 1988.

 
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Jim Courtney
In reply to this post by Ken Martin
Ken knows his RPO coaches.  I stand corrected.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Keith Hayes
This post was updated on .
Me too: Mr. Martin clearly knows his passenger cars! I am not worthy.

Stuffed chicken noted, Jim.
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: Yet Another DPL Gem: Unseen Clear Creek: One More.

Robert McFarland
What about  the gas cars the Argentine& Greys Peak had?
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Re: Carlson's Ice Cream

Chris Walker
In reply to this post by Keith Hayes
Well done Jim,   I like a derailed thread, but for search purposes please change the Message header for your post.  Then everyone will be able to find things a lot easier.

Also the Passenger side of the C&S hasn't been fully explored before either.

Jeff will be pleased that  Carlson's delicious Ice Cream is sold there....


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/3652/rv/singleitem
UpSideDownC
in New Zealand
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