Two Railroad Rosters

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Two Railroad Rosters

Rick Steele
This post was updated on .
In 1893, the Union Pacific abruptly declared bankruptcy. This was right after the death of Jay Gould, when his Railroad Empire fell apart.

What is not well known is that there was an inventory done of all of the UP's Holdings. All of these are still in the UP archives with the exception of the Kearney and Black Hills Railroad. So... I got copies of what they had.

Jim Eherenberger contacted me and told me about them. I got some copies from him and some from the UP Museum in Omaha. Fortunately I was able to pick up many of these when I was out in Omaha with the 844 or 3985.

I have copied the ones for the UPD&G and the DL&G and posted them here as attachments for your perusal and edification. I think that you will find the property inventories interesting to say the least.

Remember that the UPD&G has the Standard Gauge Lines included in the inventory. You will find that the former "Julesburg Main" of the Union Pacific from LaSalle to Julesburg, Colorado is included in the UPD&G inventory. This line was built for the UPD&G and was supposed to connect with their line in Longmont, Colorado, of course that never happened. The Julesburg main was "swapped" for rights to use the UP main line from Greeley to Cheyenne. I think that this is because the UP had abandoned the old Colorado Central main from Fort Collins, Colorado to Hazard, Wyoming (now Wycon) in 1890 and the UPD&G needed a way to get from Greeley (where the main line UP (DP) connection was) to reach the former Cheyenne & Northern lines from Cheyenne to Orin Junction, Wyoming. You will see that no UPD&G facilities are listed in Cheyenne. This is because the UPD&G used the UP facilities there. It was not until the C&S was incorporated in 1898 that the Wooden Engine House and later Brick Roundhouse and turntable was built along with all with the support facilities like the sand tower, Coal Chutes, etc. for operating Steam Locomotives. In 1917 the C&S main line that we now know from Fort Collins to Cheyenne was built by that company after control passed to the CB&Q in 1909.

An interesting item is that the line from Georgetown to Bakerville is listed as a separate piece and not included with the rest of the Clear Creek lines. This is because the line was built by the Georgetown, Breckenridge and Leadville Railroad and not the Colorado Central.

If you look closely, you will find the 3' gauge of the Greeley, Salt Lake and Pacific, including Orodell, Copper Rock and all the way to Sunset. This track was later washed out, abandoned and the grade used in places to build the Colorado and North-Western Ry which extended the line at Sunset in two directions to Ward and Nederland.

Have fun with it.

Rick
UPD&G_10-1893.pdf
DL&G.pdf
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Jim Courtney
Thanks so much Rick!

A cursory reading of the DL&G inventory has already demonstrated some oddities:

Pine: We discussed the coal chutes there. (http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/The-C-amp-S-Coal-Chutes-Pine-Como-Dickey-Pitkin-and-almost-Breckenridge-td4269.html#a4271)
I found a reference that in 1894 the coal trestle had 4 chutes, later enlarged to 6 chutes in the late 19teens - early 1920's. The 1893 inventory reports only 3 chutes -- so was this structure constantly evolving, enlarging over time?

Grant: In 1893 there was still a water tank at this station, in addition to the one just up grade at Webster.

Kenosha: A 12x28 foot frame "car repair shop" at the top of the pass -- why there?? At 28 foot, one could barely close the doors on a 27 foot boxcar or Tiffany reefer. The 30 foot Peninsular cars would hang out the door, in the cold, during the winter

Kokomo: Water tank described, but no depot as of 1893. When was it built??

Schwanders: The one chute coaling station was still there. Wonder what it looked like??


Fascinating reading and I haven't even made it to Clear Creek yet!

Rick, are there later DL&G B&B books from the late 1890's?? I seem to recall that there were several versions in the "Files" section of the main blog page, but don't see them there anymore.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Rick Steele
Yes Jim, there are later B&B Books, annotated. I will post some info on the stations that you mentioned later.

Rick
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

John Greenly
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Jim Courtney
Jim,

The Kokomo depot date is an interesting question.  The only date I have found is in the book "Summit County's Narrow-Gauge Railroads" by Bob Schoppe and Sandra Mather.  They say the depot was built in the town center spur location in 1895 (p. 97), and moved up to the main line around 1915. This is then consistent with its absence from the 1893 document, but  what was there before 1895 to service the traffic to Kokomo?

Mac Poor (p.447 memorial edition) states that

"Kokomo's first depot was built just above the old Rio Grande crossover near the wye formed by the Wilfley mill branch.  Sometime later, the depot was located about three-quarters of a mile downgrade (north) near the junction of a short spur that ran from the main line, across Tenmile Creek to a point near the center of the business district."

I've not seen this first location for the depot mentioned anywhere else, and he makes no mention of the town center location at all.  

And then, Schoppe and Mather write (their p.93):

"The C&S built several spurs in Kokomo. One, built in 1895, led to Wilfley's mill; another, built in 1908, led to Breene's mill.  Workers constructed a wye for turning engines as part of the Wilfley spur."

If this is correct, then Poor's description of the first depot location couldn't in any case have been true until 1895 when the wye was constructed.

John

And thank you Rick, for posting these documents!!


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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Doug Heitkamp
In reply to this post by Rick Steele
Rick,

Thanks for re-posting those. Good info to have on hand.
Doug Heitkamp
Centennial, CO
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Jeff Young
In reply to this post by John Greenly
Hi John,

The mainline leg of the Wilfley mill wye contains a siding, so I suspect this is where the original depot was.  I’ve also heard about a couple of boxcars used as a depot “up near the White Quail”, which would fit with this.

“Near the junction of the short spur...” refers to the later location of the depot on the mainline.

Cheers,
Jeff.

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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

degg13
In reply to this post by Rick Steele
Rick, I'll join the chorus of people saying thanks. For someone with a growing interest in the GSL&P, this information is welcome. Having the side track lengths alone is an incredible gift! I appreciate your generosity in sharing this.

Crisman: No water tank listed, indicating the one built in 1883 was dismantled/destroyed?

Gold Hill/Salina: There was a boxcar (CC pre-1880 by the looks) here as a depot from before 1890 I think, and in 1891 an "improvised freight depot" is mentioned in the papers. Neither shows on the report.

Sunset: This report is three months after the depot here burned down, quickly replaced with 2 boxcars which aren't listed.
 
Boulder: A coal platform and car repair building in town? Wow, where? I've not seen these on maps or in the photos. There was a coal shed near the second passenger station at the east end of the yards, maybe this was the "platform"?

I'm guessing the railroad didn't consider the grounded cars in use as structures as physical buildings?

Thanks!
Dave Eggleston
Seattle, WA
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

John Greenly
In reply to this post by Jeff Young
Jeff Young wrote
Hi John,

The mainline leg of the Wilfley mill wye contains a siding, so I suspect this is where the original depot was.  I’ve also heard about a couple of boxcars used as a depot “up near the White Quail”, which would fit with this.

“Near the junction of the short spur...” refers to the later location of the depot on the mainline.

Cheers,
Jeff.
Hi Jeff,

yes, could be, but If Schoppe and Mather are correct, the wye and that siding didn't exist until 1895, and by that time the depot was built downtown, according to them.  I'd bet you're right that at first there was probably a boxcar "depot" on the mainline, before the spur to downtown was built.  Maybe that's what Mac Poor was referring to.  And maybe one or both of the old carbodies that ended up by the depot in its final location were the original depot?  

And yes, certainly the "near junction of short spur" location means the final location on the mainline after about 1915.

Cheers,
John


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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Rick Steele
Since I only have a limited amount of information to share, I am posting a couple of pages from the DL&G Ry Co. Bridges, Buildings and Other Structures Book, November 1, 1894

This belonged to H. L. Allen who annotated (hand wrote) the changes along the line while he was there.

I have one dated January 1, 1886 from the UPRY, Colorado Division, but Kokomo is nothing but a tool house.

So have a look, first at pages 76 and 77, I scanned these and take full responsibility and ownership for them and the fights that they start...


Now comes the other, Pages 80 and 81 that he referred to on page 77. I still have to clean up a lot of this, but the pertinent info is there.



Rick
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Jeff Young
Great stuff!

The 1893 DL&G inventory shows a 1214' siding at Kokomo.  This must be the siding that forms one leg of the later wye.  (The inventory doesn't mention the Wilfley spur, so we can assume the wye doesn't yet exist.)

Allen's notes then give the Kokomo depot being built in 1895.  He has the water tank at 132.2, the snowshed at 132.7, and the depot & platform at 132.9.  This also matches the location of the siding.  (The later mainline depot location is before the snowshed, so about 132.6.)

Both Dimmler and Allen have the depot at 16' x 28', so one presumes it's the same depot, which must have been moved twice.
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Rick Steele
Yes Jeff,

The depot was originally placed on the Wilfley Mill Spur and then moved to the Main Line, those are the only two that I have seen recorded, but it was a small depot so they could have moved it anywhere.

Rick
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Rick Steele
Allen, Pages 80 and 81, cleaned up

Pages 80 and 81 cleaned up.

Does anybody want any more?

Rick
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

degg13
It isn't D&LG but boy the same info for the GSL&P would be fantastic if it exists...
Dave Eggleston
Seattle, WA
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Jim Courtney
In reply to this post by Rick Steele
More great info, Rick!

Note Breckenridge in 1894:




The aborted coal trestle and chutes at Breckenridge is shown as existing, "unfinished", with 10 chutes. Perhaps planning and construction was done under the UP management, the project halted by the Receivership.

This is great stuff, Rick.

Could you post the B&B book/annotations for Platte Canyon, Denver to Como?
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

ComoDepot
I do not remember if this has been discussed here, the first question is why Breckenridge, construction could have been stopped for financial reasons, if there is anything definite I have not come across it. Were they dismantled and used to build the facility in Como?
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters--Dickey Stuff.

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Jim Courtney
More fascinating info, should interest Mike Trent:






The early C&S improvements at Dickey are documented:

Evidently there was a stock yard at Dickey, removed in 1901. Perhaps it was located at the site of the coal chutes, because the coal trestle and chutes are noted as built "9/6/1901, coal chutes 12 pockets." One of the large coal storage bins is also noted to be built in 10/1900.

The Dickey engine house and a bunk house are listed as built in 1902.

Perhaps the modifications noted to the depot were a result of the rebuilding, after a string of coal cars derailed and crashed into the depot's office, as described in Poor's book.

It looks like the new C&S, by 1900, had decided to locate a major engine / helper facility at Dickey.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Rick Steele
In reply to this post by degg13
Hi Dave,

I wish that I had one for the GSL&P and for the UPD&G so that I could look at the changes on the Clear Creek line, but the only two that I have both are from the former DSP&P lines. One from the UP Ry in 1886 and the other from the DL&G in 1894.

Yes, Jim Courtney, I will begin on the Structures for the 1886 UP Denver to Como and  1894 DL&G Denver Yard and the Canon District.

These books also list the bridges (including culverts) on the line.

Darel, do you think that I should just .pdf these and upload them to the files section after I post them here?

Rick

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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Rick Steele
Well guys, here we go. All the Bridges as of 1886 and the line from Denver to Como.

I will try to get to the rest of the line tomorrow.

1894 will be next, but there's enough to keep you busy with 1886 for an evening.

Rick


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Re: Two Railroad Rosters

Rick Steele
Here we go






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Re: Two Railroad Rosters 1886 Pages 46-49

Rick Steele



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