Kokomo

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Re: Kokomo

Robert McFarland
Chris,in the second photo in your post you left out the Hallack Bros. boxcar converted into a MOW car.
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Re: Kokomo

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Jeff Young
Jeff,

Not sure when the depot was moved.  Sadie George's diary mentions the daily passenger train stopping at the Kokomo depot by running down the spur from the main and along the "main street" of the town.  To resume its journey, the train would back up the spur to the main.  Her travels were c1912-1914.

The article in the Colorado Narrow Gauge Quarterly cites a 1917 Valuation Map as showing the depot moved from "downtown" to its final location on the main at the junction of the downtown spur.  So sometime between 1914 and 1917.

The first picture Chris posted above, with the engine and the caboose, is on the spur headed west toward the downtown depot location.  No depot is visible, it was located where the group of people are standing.  Note that the tender is an early intermediate style, with the back of the tender collar cut away, but the remaining tender collar not yet bent up vertically.  I suspect this is c1918-1920.

The "depot" locations at Kokomo is a confusing topic.  Mac Poor places the original DSP&P depot near the C&S wye, on the siding just past the switch of the south leg of the wye on Todd's excellent map.  The "downtown" depot in Doug's photo, may have been built later in DL&G days, in the 1890s.  It was later moved to it's final location up on the mainline as the town waned in importance and passenger traffic.

The third photo that Chris posted is of the D&RG's yard and depot, looking to the southwest, before the DSP&P arrived on the scene, c1880.

I have some more photos to scan and post, perhaps tomorrow.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Kokomo

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
Other Kokomo Photos:



The full version of the photo Chris posted, with the D&RG water tank to the right (inside the wye), before the track turns back to the left, to the other side of the valley. The original "Kokomo" is on the far hillside--it later burned down in 1881, moving down the hillside and absorbing its Siamese twin, Recen, with both communities known collectively as "Kokomo" thereafter.



Looking north, down valley, from the hillside above Recen/Kokomo.  Visible at left is the top of the D&RG tank, the D&RG yard and depot.  In the distance on the right, along the C&S grade, is likely the Kokomo water tank (the red dot on Todd's map, as the C&S grade crossed Clinton Gulch).



Looking west, down on the first trestle crossing over the D&RG.  To the right (out of view) is a cut later covered by a snow shed.  To the left (out of view), the north switch of the C&S siding would have been located.  The White Quail Mill (on Todd's map) looks to be in ruins.  I believe that the C&S depot in its downtown location is just visible at the right edge of the frame, just above the dark house with light roof.

Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Kokomo

Robert McFarland
In reply to this post by Robert McFarland
In the middle of the "10 mile Pass" photo to the left of the dilapidated shed is one of the DSP&P's original  boxcars.
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Re: Kokomo

Jeff Young
In reply to this post by Chris Walker
Thanks for all the great photos, everyone.

A window of 1914 - 1917 for the depot move is close enough for me (I’m modelling 1926, so clearly post-move).

One question: the comment under one of the photos says “looking south from the hillside of Recen”.  If I’ve managed to orient myself correctly, that’s north (down valley), isn’t it?

Cheers,
Jeff.
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Re: Kokomo

Chris Walker
Recen, Robinson, Kokomo have always been confusing to me.  {:))
UpSideDownC
in New Zealand
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Re: Kokomo

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Jeff Young
Jeff,

Your right, "looking North, down the valley, from Recen" is correct.

Since you're modeling 1926, some more stuff you may not have seen:

First, a view of the depot in its original habitat from the George Diary, dated 1913:



I scanned this from the Klingers' Platte Canon Memories . . . book.  The photo citation is "George Diary -- Denver Public Library, Western History Department Collection"  but I have yet to find it on the DPL site; perhaps Sadie George's fabulous photos haven't yet all been digitalized.

Anyway, note that the view is the same as the view that Chris posted of the engine and caboose, though in warmer weather.  The two small trestles cross Tenmile Creek (foreground), then Kokomo Creek further down toward the depot.
Note also that the depot has been painted a lighter color than in Doug's early photo, perhaps the Trumbull revival light grey with dark green trim scheme of 1905-1908.


Next are three photos of the depot in its later location, all scanned from Kindig, R.H., et al, Pictorial Supplement to the Denver South Park & Pacific,  Rocky Mountain Railroad Club, Devner, 1959.



This photo is from the late teens, photographer unknown, Elmore Wehrley Collection.  Note the coal car on the spur leading downtown to the former depot location, barely clearing the mainline.  Note also the "Como" spark arrestor on the engine and the board attached to the front of the headlight to protect the glass from snow.

The following two photos are by the same photographer, not identified, both from the "Recen Collection".  I believe the date is about 1924-25, for reasons I will discuss below.  The photos are of a multiple engine train working hard upgrade toward Leadville.



The two lead engines are numbers 71 and 75 per the caption.  Note that the lettering on the boxcars is illegible, but the location of the lettering on the first 3 cars doesn't fit with either the C&S block or later 1926 scheme.  I believe that these are not yet rebuilt D&RG boxcars in the pre 1924 block lettering scheme, the first perhaps a 4000 series car, the others 3000 series.  

I have seen a couple of other photos from as late as the early 1920s with D&RG boxcars in the consist, always in the Dillon, Keystone, Tenmile Canyon area.  Perhaps, per the 1910-11 joint operating agreement, the C&S was still handling the D&RG's remaining Blue River branch business, using the former's trains and trackage and the latter's rolling stock.

The outfit car behind the depot is a 30 foot Peninsular boxcar;  John Maxwell's plan C-22 of that car states that frame dimensions were taken from C&S 7660 (UP 24,520) at Kokomo.

Note also the modern looking tower on the hillside in the background--I don't know if this some sort of tram tower, or an electric power transmission line running up to the expanding Climax mine operation.



As the train passed the photographer, he turned to his right and caught both engines about to enter the big cut, covered by the snow shed.  The big trestle over the D&RG grade and Tenmile Creek are just on the other side of the shed. Note the little piles of cinders by the track.

By the way, Jeff, in what scale are you modeling Kokomo?
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Kokomo

Jeff Young
Hi Jim,

That 1913 George Diary picture is particularly interesting to me as it shows two trestles over creeks/ditches on otherwise relatively flat ground.  Definitely gives me inspiration to vary things up a bit on the lines through town.

I’m modelling in HOn3.  It won’t be an accurate representation of Kokomo/Recen as I don’t have the space (Todd’s map is about 60’ long in HO scale), but I plan to attempt accurate representations of some of the buildings and their settings (in town, edge of town, etc.).

In fact, all of my layout has considerable compression: the D&RGW tracks leaving Kokomo go over Marshall Pass to Sargent, while the S&P tracks head up to Alpine Tunnel.  Fremont Pass, Leadville and the whole western side of South Park have been squeezed out.

In the other direction, Dickey, Breckenridge, Boreas and Como have all been lost, with the S&P line leaving Kokomo descending down into eastern South Park and the Alma branch and Jefferson.

While it sometimes feels a bit jumbled, it does give me the opportunity to model a good mix of stuff (ranch land, high country, placer and hard-rock mining, railroad pass operations, etc.).

My timeline is also somewhat disjoint.  C-19 #346 is on lease to the C&S for the High Line.  Wearing its Ridgway spark arrestor, it appears in pre-wreck form.  (The Kokomo/South Park sections are therefore April/May 1936).  

In contrast, C-19 #345 has just returned to the D&RGW, and is spending a bit of time on the pre-Shamano Gunnison line.  That puts Marshall Pass & Sargent in April 1937.  

And or course my Alpine Tunnel section can’t really be any later than 1910….

Cheers,
Jeff.
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Re: Kokomo

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
Kokomo is a neat location for modeling, especially 1900-1910, before the D&RG stopped operating its Blue River branch.  All that trackage of the 2 narrow gauge lines was squeezed together in the confines of a high mountain valley, among houses, businesses and mills, but at no place did they interchange with a physical trackage connection.

I've often thought that the later depot location on the C&S would lend itself to a long, simple narrow shelf module(s):  Kokomo Tank to the left, the Depot area with outfit cars and the truncated spur in center foreground, the scene ending on the right with the snowshed piercing a backdrop.  Or if space allowed, continuing to the right with the double trestles over the D&RG, with the siding and wye (modeled or suggested) between.

Good luck modeling in HOn3--if Blackstone models had been around in the early 1980s, I likely would not have chnaged to Sn3.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Kokomo

Robert McFarland
The goings on around Kokomo in 1883 would have made a good 1950s western.
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Re: Kokomo

Chris Walker
Jim already posted this one, here's a close-up from it.
http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/12391/rv/singleitem/rec/145


With the Depot hiding off to the side...
UpSideDownC
in New Zealand
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Re: Kokomo

Jeff Young
And here was me just wondering if that water tank had an octagonal roof or a conical one. ;)

Nice 3-way stub in the foreground there too….

Cheers,
Jeff

PS: can anyone tell from the other angle (posted earlier) if the frostbox is on the front of that water tank or in the center?  It looks like the front to me, but the picture is awful grainy when you get up close….


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Re: Kokomo

Robert McFarland
It appears that one of the tracks of that 3-way stub has been removed.
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Re: Kokomo

Jeff Young
Yeah, I don’t see a switch-stand at the other end of that cross-over either.  (The switch-stand for the 3-way appears to be hidden by the water spout, but you can see its shadow poking out from the base of the spout.)

Cheers,
Jeff.


On 15 Mar 2015, at 13:45, Robert McFarland [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

It appears that one of the tracks of that 3-way stub has been removed.


If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://c-sn3-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/Kokomo-tp1652p1762.html
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NAML

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Re: Kokomo

Jim Courtney
In reply to this post by Chris Walker
Chris,

I would never have noticed the little DL&G / C&S depot hiding in there without your enlargement.

Perhaps you could start a thread, sharing your mastery of the DPL website.  Specifically how you download, enlarge and crop photos to post in a discussion thread.  I can't seem to figure it out.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Kokomo

Jeff Young
I was having trouble reconciling the picture of the C&S trestle over the D&RG tracks with Todd’s excellent map.  You can certainly see Recen to the right, but where’s Kokomo to the left?

Then I remembered that Kokomo burned down in 1881, and they rebuilt mostly within Recen but called the result Kokomo.

Which means that in 1936 I should be modelling mostly what is Recen in the early photos (the location of the D&RG yard and the “downtown” C&S depot).

Cheers,
Jeff.
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Re: Kokomo

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
Well, another 40 year old misconception corrected!

I have always assumed "Recen" was south of Kokomo, on the hillside, later burning down, leaving the hillside bare except for the Mill and a few structures.

But in Digerness's Mineral Belt II, it clearly states that the original buildings of the Main Street of Kokomo burned down in 1881, "and the town moved down the hillside, abosorbing the community of Recen in the process.  The town was built on land owned by the Recen brothers, Henry, Andrew and Daniel and both settlements became known as Kokomo"

So, down in the valley, at the confluence of Tenmile and Kokomo Creeks were the structures that survived into the 1930s:  The two depots, the homes and business, the D&RG yard (with wye and water tank) and the iconic school house on the hillside west of the D&RG depot were all considered "Kokomo" after about 1885.

I will go back and edit my earlier comments to avoid confusing others--thanks for pointing this out!!

Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Kokomo

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Chris Walker
If you go to the DPL link that Chris posted above, set the magnification to maximum and explore the C&S grade at the top right corner of the photo, you can find the C&S Kokomo Water Tank and the handcar shed in its original location, before being moved to join the little depot on the mainline:



Note also the little 2 span trestle that crossed Clinton Gulch that fed the tank.

Chris, maybe, just maybe I'm starting to get the hang of this!
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Kokomo

Tim Schreiner
More photos of Kokomo in this thread than I've seen in my lifetime!! Very much appreciated.
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Re: Kokomo

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
Speaking of the iconic Kokomo School House:



David S. Digerness, The Mineral Belt, Volume II, Sundance Publications, Ltd, 1978, page 205.

Photo circa 1950s, long after abandonment of both railroads.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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