Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

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Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

Jim Courtney
I'm currently bidding on this photo, listed on eBay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Railroad-Photo-Colorado-Southern-Line-Denver-Engines-5-6-Going-to-Leadville-/122206216137?hash=item1c740edfc9:g:5QwAAOSwMVdYF1Ro&autorefresh=true





The caption (on the back of the photo) says this is the Leadville passenger train, leaving Denver, double headed by C&S numbers 5 and 6, in May, 1934.

I've read somewhere about passenger movements of kids to Summer Camps, using extra coaches and an express car for all the kids' baggage, etc.  The passenger train would switch out the helper engine and the extra baggage car and coaches at that location, then head on to Como and finally Leadville.  

I believe I recall the location of the camp as Crystal Lake. Was the Catholic Camp at "Santa Maria" open by 1934?  

Anyone know this trains destination?
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

ComoDepot
May would be before Summer Camps start, well certainly now.

May is before most things start, wonder what it could be. Military?
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Re: Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

Jim Courtney
Was the CCC in operation in 1934?  Perhaps this is a CCC special, like those on the RGS.

The RPO in the consist suggests that this is, indeed, the Leadville passenger, but with extra cars added for some kind of mass people movement.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

Mike Trent
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jim Courtney
Hi Jim,


Could be travelers headed to various stops along the line, could be a veterans train, or any other of a number of reasons. Or, even a CCC train. I believe they were very active in those days.

Holiday getaways were probably not common during the depression, so the CCC movement idea is probably a pretty good one.
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Re: Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
I don't know, Mike.

May, 1934, was only a year and a half into FDR's first term.  I'm not sure the CCC was up and running by then.

There is this Otto Perry photo of a double headed excursion in 1928:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/42528/rec/7



Per caption:
Order of Railway Conductors Special Train; 7 cars, 25 MPH. Photographed: South of Sheridan Junction, Colo., July 8, 1928

I guess the extra cars in the May, 1934, train could be to accommodate a day excursion as far as Dome Rock or Crystal Lake--Memorial Day Special maybe?  The cars could have been picked up by the afternoon Denver bound passenger.  

But wait!  When did the Leadville train cease being daily-except-Sunday, and become tri-weekly??
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

John Schapekahm
In reply to this post by Jim Courtney
Jim Courtney wrote
Was the CCC in operation in 1934?  Perhaps this is a CCC special, like those on the RGS.
following excerpted from =
The Workers
Civilian Conservation Corps
By ]ay R. Ferguson (1995 Second Place Prize Winner in the Historically JeffCo History Writer's Award)
Historically-Jeffco-Magazine-1996-summer
     The Civilian Conservation Corps Reforestation Relief Act passed both houses of Congress on March 30, 1933. President Roosevelt signed it into law the following day. This legislation created the so-called Civilian Conservation Corps.
     The first group of volunteers to enroll in the Colorado CCC reported to Fort Logan in late April 1933, to "condition themselves for forest life." The army set aside a portion of the fort grounds especially for this purpose and the CCC men dubbed the area "Camp Roosevelt"
     The CCC in Colorado began operations with the establishment of twenty-nine camps in the summer of 1933, then increased the number to forty-seven when the entire program expanded in 1935, and ended with forty-two in 1941, the last complete year of operations.
     Once they had the men conditioned for work in the forest the original group of Colorado CCC volunteers set up tent camps in the mountains. The first of these opened in early May 1933, at Trout Creek near Buena Vista. Within days three other camps began operations: one at Estes Park and two in Pike National Forest at Lake George and Hardscrabble.
     Of the forty-two CCC camps in Colorado only one still stands: Camp SP-13-C, Morrison, Colorado. Its members came from an already established camp in Durango Colorado. On June 30, 1935, Company 1848 transferred into Camp SP-13-C, Mount Morrison. The CCC accomplished the move by rail "with nothing of importance transpiring during the trip.”
     Furnishing manpower for the construction of a huge amphitheater in the Park of the Red Rocks provided the rationale for the move. 
On May 9, 1936, the CCC canceled all other projects at Camp SP-13-C so that all man-days of work and funds available could be expended on the building of the amphitheater in the Park of the Red Rocks. The building of this amphitheater became one of the largest projects of its kind ever to be undertaken by the CCC.
[lightly edited, emphasis added]

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Re: Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

Jim Courtney
Wow, talk about your immediate response to a question: <30 seconds!!

So, no known CCC camps in Platte Canon.  Was "Trout Creek" still accessible by the C&S as far as Bath or Newitt? Or had the track south of Garos been taken up by 1934?  Was Lake George, in the South Park, close enough for CCC recruits to de-train at Como or Garos, to report to the new CCC camp there?

Could these extra cars be headed out of Denver only as far South as Ft Logan?  Why then would they be folded into the daily westbound passenger train?

Amazing how one little photo on eBay can turn up so much discussion / information!

Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

ComoDepot
The CCC building in Fairplay became the Town Hall and is now the Library.

I believe the track south of Garo had long gone.
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Re: Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

John Schapekahm
In reply to this post by Jim Courtney
Jim Courtney wrote
But wait!  When did the Leadville train cease being daily-except-Sunday, and become tri-weekly??
Effective May 31, 1931, the C&S Denver-Leadville trains became tri-weekly. At first, the trains ran Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays. Then, for several years, the runs fluctuated from those three days to Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. The schedule eventually reverted back to Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, which routine remained the schedule through the final runs of April 1937.
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Re: Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

John Schapekahm
In reply to this post by Jim Courtney
Jim Courtney wrote
had the track south of Garos been taken up by 1934?  
Mac Poor has the C&S taking up  Garos-Macune in 1922 ...
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Re: Double Headed Passenger: CCC camps along the C&SnG

Jim Courtney
In reply to this post by ComoDepot
As often happens here, one topic of discussion often morphs into others.

So now I'm curious.

If there was a CCC camp at Fairplay in the 1930s and a lot of CCC activity at Ft Logan and Morrison, were there other CCC camps / operations along the C&S that might have generated occasional train movements of these young men?  How about on Clear Creek?

Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Double Headed Passenger: CCC camps along the C&SnG

ComoDepot
Fairplay had an office, if there were camp(s) in the area I do not know where they were.
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Re: Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

Mike Trent
Administrator
In reply to this post by John Schapekahm
John, technically the Denver Leadville Passenger trains ran 6 days a week before and after 1931.

The "Tri-Weekly" schedule simply meant that they ran Westbound (Train No 70) Monday Wednesday and Friday between Denver and Leadville, and Eastbound (Train No 71) Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. All they did was eliminate the opposing train.

They may have already been on the "Tri-Weekly" schedule beforehand on the mail contract. There are a lot of pictures that claim to show the Denver-Leadville train running in both directions without a mail car.
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Re: Double Headed Passenger, Leaving Denver

CM Auditor
In reply to this post by Jim Courtney
Lake George is at the west end of elevenmile canon, very close to the Teller-Park county line.
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