Dealing with compression...

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Dealing with compression...

Jeff Young
My Silica branch is considerably compressed, with about 2’ of branch line before the loading spur at the end.  Worse, it goes downhill rather than uphill.  Together those facts leave me with a bit of a quandary over what to do with the switches:

A) Maximise historical accuracy: put Elliot stands on the branch and spur switches, and put an (oddly uphill) derail with harp stand in between them.

B) Maximise functional accuracy: put Elliot stands on the branch and spur switches, and delete the derail (and its harp stand).

C) Capture the gestalt of the area.  Put an Elliot stand on the branch switch, and a harp stand on the spur switch (so it sort of “represents” the derail as well).

I keep going back and forth between (A) and (C).  (B) hasn’t gotten much air time because I don’t like losing the harp stand.  (Jefferson, next up the line on my layout, has the wye compressed out so it doesn’t have any harp stands either.)

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Jeff.

Background: most of the layout is 1936, with an emphasis on modelling rather than operations.  But I've bent history here and there: Marshall Pass is set in 1940 so I can run the Shavano; Alpine Tunnel is still open (‘cause you gotta have a tunnel); and the D&RGW still uses its track into Kokomo on the odd day (so the two halves of the layout can interchange).  However, I try to be historically correct as much as possible (so, for instance, the D&RGW hasn’t bothered to update the harp stands on the Blue River branch, and the D&RGW Kokomo depot and water tank are still standing, but not in use).
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Derrell Poole
If anyone - like me for instance - tells you that you are historically inaccurate; remind them that their model steam locomotives run on electricity - not steam....
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Keith Hayes
In reply to this post by Jeff Young
A.
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Jim Courtney
In reply to this post by Jeff Young
I wouldn't worry about historic accuracy (the entire branch line is 2 foot long).  Do what ever looks best to your eye.  You may not be able to figure that out until the scene is all but finished.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Dealing with compression...

John Schapekahm
In reply to this post by Derrell Poole
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Mike Trent
Administrator
I'll be happy to inform anyone who wants to know that all my stuff runs on coal.

Hey John, welcome back!
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Tim Schreiner
The importance for the scene is to achieve the right feel, and atmosphere. Our goal is to escape reality, and loose ourselves for a moment. Selective compression is a necessary evil we all must accept.
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Robert McFarland
Selectively compress a Big Boy into a Little Joe(Varney,that is).
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Jeff Young
Thanks for the input, everyone.

I’m currently investigating whether or not I could squeeze in a non-operable wye at Jefferson (no tail and perhaps something as tight as 15” R curves).  I could grass over most of the track to disguise the curvature (I imagine they weren’t using helpers over Kenosha anymore in the 20’s/30’s so the wye would have been mostly out-of-use).  

That would give me a couple or three harp stands in that area of the layout, and put all the Silica options back on the table….

Cheers,
Jeff.


On 21 Jun 2015, at 04:51, Robert McFarland [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Selectively compress a Big Boy into a Little Joe(Varney,that is).


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Re: Dealing with compression...

John Schapekahm
This post was updated on .
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Jeff Young
John,

Well, it's undergone some changes and I never bothered to update the overall plan.  However, here's what I have:

This is the original plan:



The center of the upside-down 'U' is Tenmile canyon (originally represented by Climax, but now Kokomo).
The left leg is the Saguache range (Marshall Pass down the left side with Sargent at the bottom; Alpine Tunnel down the right).  
The right leg is South Park (the Silica branch on the left; Jefferson siding on the right).

Here's an updated sketch of Kokomo:



The D&RGW tracks enter from the top-left (coming off Marshall Pass) and goes diagonally to the bottom-right, passing the depot and then water tank.  The real D&RGW tracks crossed over to the other side of the valley after the tank; on my layout this is represented by a track which is also the C&S "downtown spur".  The Kokomo school house is at right angles below the depot (between the freight spur and the Alpine Tunnel track).

The C&S mainline enters from the top-right.  The downtown spur switches off right before the depot.  (The spur also connects to the Alpine Tunnel track to allow it to act as a reverse loop.)

Here's an update of the Marshall Pass section:



and an update of Sargent:



The coaling trestle is at the bottom.  It's not operational as the feeder track to it goes off the layout.
Water tank and depot off the end of the trestle; eating house across the mainline and siding from the depot.

The spur on the other side of the creek from Sargent is the C&S Pitkin branch (now being run by the D&RGW).  It goes under the Alpine Tunnel track and on to the Mary Murphy mine and tram house.

All that may be pretty difficult to piece together; I realize there's a whole lot internalized in my head. ;)

Cheers,
Jeff.
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Bill Uffelman
Jeff what is the overall size of the layout? I see that the big squares are 12 small squares but I cannot derive a working scale using your 35" radius at the top left.

Bill Uffelman Ocean View DE 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android


From:"Jeff Young [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum]" <[hidden email]>
Date:Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 3:14 PM
Subject:Re: Dealing with compression...

John,

Well, it's undergone some changes and I never bothered to update the overall plan.  However, here's what I have:

This is the original plan:



The center of the upside-down 'U' is Tenmile canyon (originally represented by Climax, but now Kokomo).
The left leg is the Saguache range (Marshall Pass down the left side with Sargent at the bottom; Alpine Tunnel down the right).  
The right leg is South Park (the Silica branch on the left; Jefferson siding on the right).

Here's an updated sketch of Kokomo:



The D&RGW tracks enter from the top-left (coming off Marshall Pass) and goes diagonally to the bottom-right, passing the depot and then water tank.  The real D&RGW tracks crossed over to the other side of the valley after the tank; on my layout this is represented by a track which is also the C&S "downtown spur".  The Kokomo school house is at right angles below the depot (between the freight spur and the Alpine Tunnel track).

The C&S mainline enters from the top-right.  The downtown spur switches off right before the depot.  (The spur also connects to the Alpine Tunnel track to allow it to act as a reverse loop.)

Here's an update of the Marshall Pass section:



and an update of Sargent:



The coaling trestle is at the bottom.  It's not operational as the feeder track to it goes off the layout.
Water tank and depot off the end of the trestle; eating house across the mainline and siding from the depot.

The spur on the other side of the creek from Sargent is the C&S Pitkin branch (now being run by the D&RGW).  It goes under the Alpine Tunnel track and on to the Mary Murphy mine and tram house.

All that may be pretty difficult to piece together; I realize there's a whole lot internalized in my head. ;)

Cheers,
Jeff.


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Re: Dealing with compression...

John Schapekahm
In reply to this post by Jeff Young
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Jeff Young
In reply to this post by Bill Uffelman
Hi Bill,

Actually, the big squares are 10 small squares. (12 would have been much easier to work with.)

The big squares are 2’; the layout is 15’ x 12’; the room is about 20’ x 20’.

Cheers,
Jeff.


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Re: Dealing with compression...

Jeff Young
In reply to this post by Bill Uffelman
Here’s the switch disposition (which is what started the whole thread):

               Jefferson:     #6, stub, C&S Elliot stand
                              #8, stub, C&S Elliot stand

                              #5 to wye, stub, DSP&P harp stand ???

               Silica branch: #8, stub, C&S Elliot stand
                              derail, harp stand w/D&RGW-style flag
                              #6 to spur, stub, C&S Elliot stand

               Kokomo D&RGW:  #6 to station, stub, D&RGW harp stand
                              #6 to siding, stub, D&RGW harp stand
                              #6 to spur, stub, D&RGW harp stand

               Kokomo C&S:    #6 to siding, stub, C&S Elliot stand
                              #8 downtown spur, stub, C&S Elliot stand
                              #6 wye, stub, DSP&P harp stand 
                              #8 D&RGW connector, stub, DSP&P harp stand

               Marshall Pass: #8 to siding, points, high star stand
                              #8 to turntable, points, high star stand

               Pitkin branch: #6, points, high star stand
                              derail, DSP&P harp stand ???
                              #6 to spur, stub, DSP&P harp stand

               Sargent:       #8 to siding, points, high star stand
                              #6 crossover (siding side), stub, D&rGW Elliot stand
                              #6 crossover (mainline side), points, high star stand
                              #6 to sand house, stub, D&RGW Elliot stand
                              #8 to coaling trestle, points, high star stand

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Re: Dealing with compression...

Bill Uffelman
In reply to this post by Jeff Young
I was counting squares on my cell phone outside -- after I came in to review the plan on the computer I realized the error of my ways.
Thanks for sharing.

Bill Uffelman
Ocean View DE



On Sunday, June 21, 2015 6:18 PM, Jeff Young [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:


Hi Bill,

Actually, the big squares are 10 small squares. (12 would have been much easier to work with.)

The big squares are 2’; the layout is 15’ x 12’; the room is about 20’ x 20’.

Cheers,
Jeff.





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Re: Dealing with compression...

Jim Courtney
In reply to this post by Jeff Young
Jeff,

What minimum radius are you using in HOn3?

And I wondered, why all the #8 turnouts?  They require 33% more length than #6's, although they are more aesthetically pleasing to the eye--are you planning on running the big K class engines?  Just about everything in Sn3 takes #6 turnouts fairly well.

Just curious, as I seem to be drawing track plans lately.

Jim
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Derrell Poole
In reply to this post by Jeff Young
Jeff - it all looks like fun to me. UNLESS your HOn3 locos actually burn coal. Then everything is too tight and out of context. Good gawd - Marshell Pass and Kokomo in the same room together? Blasphemy!
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Derrell Poole
In reply to this post by Tim Schreiner
So being informed, Mike, I am compelled to ask - what does Mike run on? (Bean burritos are coming to mind...)
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Re: Dealing with compression...

Jeff Young
In reply to this post by Jim Courtney
Hi Jim,

The aesthetic target is 25” on the mainline and 20” on branches, but the operational minimums are 22” main / 18” branch.

I use #6’s on straights, but a lot of my turnouts are on curves.  I use #8’s there to keep the divergent routes from having tighter radii than a “normal” #6.  (Or that was the idea behind it, anyway.)

K-28’s are the biggest I currently plan on.  But I’d like the layout to accommodate a K-37 just in case (since they were used quite a bit on Marshall Pass in the 30’s).

Cheers,
Jeff.


On 22 Jun 2015, at 01:18, Jim Courtney [via C&Sn3 Discussion Forum] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Jeff,

What minimum radius are you using in HOn3?

And I wondered, why all the #8 turnouts?  They require 33% more length than #6's, although they are more aesthetically pleasing to the eye--are you planning on running the big K class engines?  Just about everything in Sn3 takes #6 turnouts fairly well.

Just curious, as I seem to be drawing track plans lately.

Jim
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA



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