C&S RPO 11: Linn Moedinger’s Shapeways Print in Sn3 and Hon3

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C&S RPO 11: Linn Moedinger’s Shapeways Print in Sn3 and Hon3

Keith Hayes
Pique your interest?
More to come as Jim and I conspire to build a couple models of C&S RPOs from a new 3d Print created by Linn W. Moedinger.
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S RPO 11: Linn Moedinger’s Shapeways Print in Sn3 and Hon3

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
My wife and I are seriously considering moving back to Central Texas in a couple of years, to be closer to family in our dotage. If so, it will likely be a small house or condo, perhaps in a retirement community with other old fossils. I doubt that I will ever have room for a Sn3 layout. Jeff's work has inspired me to take another look at HOn3 as an alternative.

A few months back I noticed on Shapeways Linn's HOn3 print of C&S RPO 11 (the offset baggage door, toward the baggage end of the car makes the print have to be number 11 -- Ken Martin taught us that the baggage doors of RPOs 10 and 12 were centered on the car side).

Linn's Shapeway' shop is located here: https://www.shapeways.com/shops/narrow-gage-unlimited

Out of curiosity I ordered both the RPO and the Business Car 911 in HOn3. Both are exquisite prints of unique C&S cars that will never show up as brass imports or injection molded kits.  Keith somehow convinced Linn to scale the RPO print up to S scale so he could add this unique C&S head end car to this Leadville roster.

Neither car body comes with a floor, tho' Linn has promised those in the future.

I finally found a source for Bestine so that I can safely soak the cars to remove the printing wax residue and then prime them.  I had a bad experience using acetone on Keith's Shapeways window parts, with distortion of the parts, kinda like something in Edvard Munch's The Scream.

Photos of the HOn3 body to follow, soon I hope.

In the mean time, Keith and I could use all the photos of RPO 11 that we can find (photos of 10 and 12 will be helpful, too).

Here is what I've got:


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42462/rv/singleitem/rec/17




In Grandt's Narrow Gauge Pictorial  Note off set baggage door.



Lad Arend photo in Dorman Collection. Note centered baggage door.



We could use all the photos for details we can get. Chris, can you help us here??
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S RPO 11: Linn Moedinger’s Shapeways Print in Sn3 and Hon3

Steve Black
In reply to this post by Keith Hayes
Pique your interest?

In Sn3? It sure does.  

I look forward to hearing more about this.

Steve
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Re: C&S RPO 11: Linn Moedinger’s Shapeways Print in Sn3 and Hon3

Ken Martin
In reply to this post by Jim Courtney
Here is a photo of 12 in scrapping train service, so ignore the skyscraper smokestack.

Ken Martin


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Re: C&S RPO 11: Linn Moedinger’s Shapeways Print in Sn3 and Hon3

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
Thanks Ken,

I had told Keith that I knew of no photos of RPO 11's under frame, but I was wrong.

Ken also posted this image of RPO 11, when derailed at Foxton with C&S number 10:


http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/72055/rec/3






Ken notes in his plans for RPO 11, that the car had 4 truss rods, and sure enough that's what the photo shows. I am confident that the car in the photo is C&S 11 -- note that the far edge of the big baggage door is just above the far queen post.

Not also that the center two truss rods are shorter than the outer two, to clear the trucks.

Does anyone know of a clearer digital image of this photo?
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S RPO 11: Linn Moedinger’s Shapeways Print in Sn3 and Hon3

Keith Hayes
Ken, I was hoping you would chime in.

I finally got a break from yard work to give the print a bath. I took some photos before I did.
The sides.


The inside. Linn did a great job placing stiffeners at key spots.

The ends.


Sorry it is so hard to read. The plan is to let the part dry overnight and get a coat of primer on it tomorrow.
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S RPO 11: Linn Moedinger’s Shapeways Print in Sn3 and Hon3

Robert McFarland
Why not do the original version-Colorado Central 3-5(frequently used on the DSP&P)?
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Re: C&S RPO 11: Linn Moedinger’s Shapeways Print in Sn3 and Hon3

Ken Martin
I am not sure if you mean, make a new print or use this to do the CC car. If the latter it won't work, between removing the platforms and the changes the Post Office required it is a different car. To do the CC car you would have to add the platforms, extend the roof and change the mail door and windows. You would have to do the same if you were to back date the 13.

Ken Martin

CC 1325

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Re: C&S RPO 11: Linn Moedinger’s Shapeways Print in Sn3 and Hon3

Keith Hayes
In reply to this post by Keith Hayes
Though the backstory is usually Jim's thing, here is what Hayes Hendrick's excellent website has to say about 10-11-12:

These are originally Colorado Central cars built by the Union Pacific in 1880. They originally had end platforms with the roofs extending over the platforms. The three cars always had sequential numbers, and 11 was originally CC #4, then UP #1324, then UPD&G 1324 and 29 before transition to C&S 111 and finally just 11.

The cars were modified to the current configuration in 1912 to conform to the recently adopted US Post Office standards. Hayes believes the end door at the mail compartment end was removed at this time. Car 10 was the first to go in 1929, and both 11 and 12 lasted until 1939, with 12 being conveyed to the scrapper, Platt Rogers, Inc., when the line was dismantled.

Hayes indicates Maxwell has a plan for these cars (an earlier incarnation), plan C-108. Ed Gebhart published a plan in the July-August 1989 of the Gazette. Hayes includes the C&S folio for these cars (a noted void in the files section of this blog!) The text is cut off, but I infer that the baggage section was actually 24'-3" on 11. The mail sorting area is against the interior bulkhead of the car--Hayes suggests this is unusual, but it is similar to the SG RPO at the Colorado Railroad Museum.

The Sn3 model:

I cleaned the model last night and the detail on the part is quite fine. There is some odd rendering going on on the end door, which I initially thought was related to the Bestene bath, but it seems to be in the part. I will chalk this up to a printing thing, as I have experienced a similar issue on another part. The roof wall joint is thin at one point--I suspect this is due to Linn modelling the roof as a separate part and putting the roof and carbody together digitally. All the details are rendered quite nicely and very sharply.

I like this car probably because of its UP heritage. It has a very deep letter board and a rather steep clerestory curve and carlines (meaning the cross section of the car). These contrast with the more delicate profiles of St. Charles/ ACF, Pullman and Jackson and Sharp roofs that we are familiar with as used by the D&RGW. The original doors and windows all have arched tops--the end door is almost a half circle, and the jambs have a nice radiused profile. Line captured each of these quite nicely. By comparison the 1912 RPO modifications are less poetic, which is an interesting contrast. The C&S head end cars feature giant brake wheels on the ends, and that is cool too. (Jim has an idea for me on how to model these). Overall, the car hints of its early heritage and the design standards favored by the UP in that era.

When I first reached out to Linn regarding scaling up this model, he expressed concern about the cost. In fact, I had shared this same concern in January when Linn first shared his models with this group. The cost of the car came in less than I expected (it is the largest part I have ever ordered), between $100 and $200. At one point, I considered asking Linn to print the windows and doors, but then I thought it would be good to have the roof--lets face it that is what holds most of us back from modelling passenger equipment. If the whole car is modelled, why not just order the whole thing. I have a number of PBL passenger cars, and these are something like $450, so by the time I put the floor and wheels under this, I will still be spending less than the brass equivalent. (Linn, while we are asking, can you do one of the shorty baggage cars too?)

Long time readers will recall that I started a project installing Soundtraxx Soundcar units in my waycar fleet. I figure every freight train needs a caboose, and being at the end of the train, one will better be able to hear the sounds of the brakes and wheel squeals. I had contemplated adding a Soundcar to my recent Overland car purchase, but elected not to at the last minute. RPO-Baggage 11 has fewer windows, and will easily cover all the parts. Also there is room for a couple nice large speakers, so I am planning to add a Soundcar to this build.




Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S RPO 11: Folio No. 24 Drawing

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
I was lucky enough to obtain a good copy of C&S Folio No. 24 "Passenger Equipment" last year. One of the many things I haven't gotten around to is doing high resolution scans and forwarding the complete collection to Daryl for the "Files Section". Maybe this winter when the rain starts?

Anyways, here is the folio sheet for C&S RPOs 10-11-12 (margin note, "corrected 7-17-18"):





The folio drawings agree and both Ken Martin's and Ed Gelbhart's drawings depict 5'-0" wheelbase trucks, with outside beams as brake beam hangers. But the photos above show no outside upper beam on the truck frame and no hung brake beams. They must be inside brake rigged, like on number 13.  Question is, were new 5'-6" trucks applied in the late 1920's or were the original 5'-0" wheel base trucks so modified?? Ken? Bob Stears? Other C&S passenger car experts?

I'm still waiting for my Bestine to arrive from Amazon, so no progress in HOn3 yet -- BTW Keith, how long do you soak the body in Bestine.

I'm excited by Linn's printed C&S passenger cars. This is the only way we are ever going to get these models short of scratch building, as they will never be imported in brass, nor tooled for injection molded kits.

I'm going to start a new thread (to not clutter up this one) C&S Passenger Cars Printed by Shapeways That I'd Like to Buy. Please list exactly what you want, what scale, quantity, etc. I'm surprised that Linn could scale up the HOn3 print to Sn3; going up to On3 scale may exceed the limits of the process, price etc.

Let's give Linn (and other artists) an idea of what the C&S community is will to pay for these exquisite models, hoping to spur on new projects.

Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S RPO 11: Folio No. 24 Drawing

Keith Hayes
Thanks for the folio, Jim.

I spent some time away from the garden and got some primer on the car. I realised the gray would not photograph well, and gave the model a dusting of green.
The Baggage end.

Neat door,  and you can see the grain from the print.

The mail end.

And the blind short end.

A look at the window and door detail.

Overall it turned out great for what is a complex 3d print. There are a couple divots in the roof that need some patch and the Baggage end needs some attention, but both are addressable. I think the roof can use some Archer weld seams to simulate the overlap of roof material.
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S RPO 11: Folio No. 24 Drawing

Jim Courtney
Looking good, Keith!

The grooves in the sheathing on the ends rendered well in the Sn3 print. Can't tell until the HOn3 print is primed.

Seems to me that the "gritty' texture on the ends could be easily sanded.

Have you sanded or filed the curved roof ends of the clerestory? On the HOn3 it appears as a series of flat facets.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S RPO 11: Folio No. 24 Drawing

Keith Hayes
Jim, the clerestory ends typically are faceted to simulate the overlapping roofing. I may sand it just the same depending upon what you all find in the photographic record.

When I ordered the RPO, I picked up these two fellows also. I have not bought figures yet and thought I would give these two a try.
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S RPO 11 in HOn3

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
My Bestine finally arrived. Following a bath, rinse, gentle scrubbing with warm water and Dawn, I gave the print a final rise with distilled water and let it dry overnight.

Using my surgical loops and a bright light I removed as much of the printing "fuzz" as possible with a thin fiberglass eraser. I reinforced some of the grooves in the end sheathing with a scribing tool.

This morning I gave the body a couple of light coats of Tamaya grey "Fine Surface Primer" and set it aside to dry.

Here is how Linn's HOn3 RPO 11 body looks at this stage:










Notice the bolt heads, grab iron fixtures dimpled for drilling hand rail holes and ratchet on brake wheel mechanism -- this is HOn3!!
The little printed rings on the bottom of the end beams (to attach end chains and hooks) are delicate, one broke off and was lost in shipping. I will likely clip off the others and replace them with Detail Associates HO scale lift rings.

Still more "fuzz" to remove. There seems to be less granular fuzz from the printing process to remove compared to Keiths Sn3 print. (But I guess HO fuzz is smaller than S scale fuzz).

Next up is the heavy mechanical part of the model construction: Floor, couplers, bolsters and trucks.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S RPO 11 in HOn3

SteveG
Wow! Very nice detail on that, and great job cleaning up the 'fuzzies'.
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Re: C&S RPO 11 in HOn3

linnwm
I must say I am tickled to see these models. Whenever I put a model in my Shapeways shop, I get the "what have I forgotten" adrenaline rush. Doing models for myself means I can fix my own screwups, but putting out to the world where there a lot more knowledgeable people than me can be a tad unnerving.

I have definitely noticed that not all the prints come out with the same level of "grain" or surface finish, though of late they seem a bit smoother. The biggest challenge is making the thing strong enough without breaking the bank. As to cleaning, I used to use Simple Green followed by Dawn detergent. Lately, I have had pretty good luck just using Dawn.

Anyway, thanks for posting the photos.
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Re: C&S RPO 11 in HOn3

CBryars2
Excellent work, just what I am looking for.  Putting 1 or 2 of these on order.  Modeling 1906-7 so I guess it will have to be rule #1.

If I understand there were 3 of these 11-13 correct?

Thanks Cameron
http://dgccrr.blogspot.com/
Facebook - Denver, Golden & Clear Creek Railroad
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Re: C&S RPO 11 in HOn3

Jim Courtney
There were 3 cars similar to this one, numbers 10-12, tho' Linn's print is for the number 11 with the slightly off-set baggage door. But they could also be numbered 10 or 12, and no one would be likely to notice.

C&S number 13 was a whole different RPO, substantial differences between the RPO section/windows prior to the remodeled standard RPO section of about 1916.

The entire point of this exercise by Keith and I is to make the C&S model building community aware of Linn's printed passenger cars.

If you would like to see other head end cars (eg, baggage, combines, RPO-coaches) let Linn know of your desires on the other thread: http://c-sng-discussion-forum.41377.n7.nabble.com/C-amp-S-Passenger-Cars-Printed-by-Shapeways-That-I-d-Like-to-Buy-td12449.html
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S RPO 11 in HOn3

Robert McFarland
Since On3 is a little too  large to do these and other similar  cars in 3d,what is the alternative?  
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Re: C&S RPO 11 in HOn3

Keith Hayes
Robert, previous to last week when I pondered this project in idle moments, I figured I would do a print of the doors and windows and use Evergreen styrene for everything else. I had not figured out the roof. This is the approach Dr. Robert Stears took with his model, which he brought to the 2017 Narrow Gauge Convention in Denver. I was very jealous.

I confess my thinking on 3d prints has evolved: if you check the archive of these pages you will find my post questioning the cost of a full car print in 1:64. In fact, Linn's print is at a price point that though expensive, it is reasonable in comparison to brass. Sure, the Cimarron kits were in the $100 range and this is more expensive, but considering the fact that it is unlikely a C&S car will be mass produced, it is a reasonable alternative.

I thought of asking Linn to part out the windows and doors, but I would still need the roof. And...I would have to figure out the quarter round ends and door jambs, plus build the sides and floor (I have to do the last anyway). Buying the whole carbody seems a reasonable timesaver and I still am having the pleasure of figuring out the floor and adding the jewelry. My plan is to add a Soundcar. All in, I will probably come close to spending the $400 I would if PBL could get 20 of us to agree we wanted the same model in brass.

I recognized Linn's name and trusted that the model would scale up. If others among us are willing to do the work making a model, the risk is $100-$200 for a model one would otherwise have to piece together or largely scratch build. For those in larger scales, the limitation is the size of the printers build volume. At 1:48, this car will be about 10" long and about 2" square in section. My spidey sense tells me that this will just fit in the Shapeways printer, but it would be good to check.
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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