C&S 73 Back up light

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C&S 73 Back up light

tonyk375
Finished redetailing my #71 and moving on to the #73.  Can't seem to find a good view of the back up light and how it is mounted.  The Roper's snapshot No 55 on the main page is a perfect example.  You can see it's there, but can't really see it.  Hoping someone has a good picture of it.  Seems to be there in the 1938 time frame.

Working on the tender first.  Like the air lines on this tender running under the frame and the patches.  The model is in HOn3  All 3 of my B-4-Fs started with Key #71's  A good amount of work to convert to 72 and 73 but really not any more than to redetail the #71 itself.  

The #71 is about ready for coal, weathering, crew and glass.  working on the plow and a few other little items today and narrowing down when exactly it had the tool box on the tender water deck.
Locomotive:  New taller bell       correct whistle   Overland plow and pilot deck    Pilot step over deck brace   new pilot deck braces
      roof hatch              
FM side of locomotive:   reposition sander lines    correct shape of injector lines     washout plug and lagging panel  in front of cab
      Replace pipe between boiler tanks   vert piping to injector line     NBW casting for boiler tanks  
                       
Eng side of loco: added 3 pipes at steam dome   replace Boiler tank piping    replace undersized air pump
      added headlight conduit     added two tanks under cab    plug in smokebox     valve at boiler tank    
       NBW casting for boiler tanks Priest flanger rod.  Airline to smokebox.         correct injector line    
       correct sander lines

Tender:  Retainer line on Eng side.  Detail frame      clinker rod hooks on FM side.  Build clinker rod holder over tool boxes
        Rebuild front steps      Tank stays      Piping from tank on rear with valves      coal "pallet"     Truck hooks
        Maker ligh brackets on rear coal sheet     still need to add markers on rear corners
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Re: C&S 73 Back up light

tonyk375
Sorry for the duplicate pic.
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Re: C&S 73 Back up light

Jim Courtney
In reply to this post by tonyk375
Hey, Tony,

That's a great looking Key number 71 you got there!

As to the back-up light on 73, these two photos are the only ones on DPL to give a hint as to how the "light" is mounted:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/fullbrowser/collection/p15330coll22/id/42987/rv/singleitem/rec/14

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/43024/rec/4


Use maximal enlargement on both.

Looks to be a 12-18" wide piece of sheet metal bolted vertically to the rear wall of the coal bunker, the light fixture (if that's what it is) seems to be bolted to the sheet metal from the back.

I wonder if this was only added after abandonment -- the only photos that I can find that suggest a back-up light, are in July 1938 when the 73 was being used by the scrappers to run train loads of rail from the current end of track down to Dome Rock, hauling empty flats back. What ever this is may have been added by the scrappers, not the railroad.

In neither photo can I see any evidence of conduit from locomotive back to the tender rear deck for power. In the first photo, near Grant. there seems to be a lot of hose coiled up between the rear coal board and the water hatch. The "headlight" seems to have another piece of sheet metal to the rear of the circular housing . . . could this be a hose reel?

If you are going to model anytime before April, 1938, maybe just leave it off . . .

I'd love to see enlargement of the two photos of 71.

When you post the photo using "insert image", choose "float"=none and "resize"=none. Works best on photos 1,000 to 1,200 pixels wide.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S 73 Back up light

tonyk375
Another shots.  Never thought about the scrapper putting the light on the #73.


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Re: C&S 73 Back up light

Keith Hayes
Tony (and Jim), I am by no means the expert here, but my observation is that the C&S narrow gauge rarely used tender lights. The notable exceptions are the 70 used on the Clear Creek lines and the Leadville switcher.

It seems that generally trains were dispatched from a terminal and traveled there in tact without multiple sections, generally during daylight. No doubt trains left early and arrived late, but they didn't have to back up. The South Park main also had a number of turning facilities at key spots, so locomotives could turn without running in reverse if necessary. Though there seem to be some instances of doubling the hill, operations were during the day and not at night, unlike Cumbres, Marshall, Poncha and Cima.

Clear Creek was an up and back operation, and due to lack of wyes at a couple key locations, the locomotive could end up backing a portion of the distance. Likewise, the LMB must have been long hours and due to the lack of turning facilities, the locomotive could travel in reverse for some distance.

Just my reading of the tea leaves: I agree that this was a modification made after abandonment.

Nice modeling, Tony. I wish someone would bring out 72 and 73 in Sn3!
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S 73 Back up light

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
In the Klinger's C&S South Platte Memories . . . book, there is a chapter on the summer of 1936 scrapping operations. There is this October, 1936 Kindig photo of locomotives 71, 6 and 73 at the C&S Denver roundhouse:







There is a cylindrical object mounted to the rear coal board of C&S 73's tender, its rear surface covered by some wood boards, perhaps protecting a glass lens from being broken when taking water.

It occurs to me that if the assignment of 73 was to haul flats of pulled up rail down to Dome Rock, and exchange them for empty flats and cars of locomotive coal for Como, the locomotive would have to run in reverse from Dome Rock, west to Pine where there was a wye to turn on.

The book states that C&S 70 would be dispatched from Denver with a train of empty flats. The locomotive would have to turn at Waterton on the wye and then, running in reverse, pull the train to Dome Rock. It would return to Denver eastbound running forward. By this date, number 70 had its high mounted tender backup light.

So perhaps the scrapping company, who rented the number 73 and crew from the C&S, did mount a tender back up headlight on number 73, in case it got caught after dark between Dome Rock and Pine; perhaps by 1938 there was a legal requirement to so equip the locomotive.

So, Tony, unless you're going to dismantle the South Park Division in HOn3, I'd leave this detail off . . .


UPDATE


Then, again, maybe not . . . curiouser and curiouser:


In Grandt's Narroew Gauge Pictorial VI, there is this photo of C&S 73 in Denver, dated 1934:





If this photo is dated correctly, then number 73 had a backup light prior to the January, 1936 wreck on Boreas and retained it after rebuilding.

And in the same book, there is this photo in 1939 of the tender of C&S 68, just prior to scrapping:




It appears tho have a back up light mount, with the two little tines, just like C&S 73's tender. And it was there in 1937 as well:

http://digital.denverlibrary.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p15330coll22/id/42535/rec/8



So at least two other engines had back up lights or at least a mount for a back up light. Number 68 was used on the Clear Creek line, not sure about number 73.  Could these have been installed for backing runs up to Blackhawk, when number 70 with its permanent back up light wasn't available?

And the mounts have no suggestion of bolt holes, or hole for electrical conduit to power a light. Is it possible that the back up light for 68 and 73 were one in the same?? Could it have been a battery powered, portable device, that was hung on the mount by way of the two little tines??

Another tender "thingamabob", this time in the late 1930s . . .
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S 73 Back up light

Mike Trent
Administrator
#73 had no backup light in mainline service. It was probably put on in '37 after the mainline was abandoned. Also note in the roundhouse picture that #71's plow has been removed, definitely post abandonment. When I was detailing my #73, I'd have loved to add that light, but could never find a date that verified it. That '34 date is not correct, and the light was absolutely not there when the Boreas wreck happened in '36.

I think the backup lights were for use up Clear Creek.
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Re: C&S 73 Back up light

tonyk375
Great information everyone!!  Thanks,