C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
32 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

Rick Steele
Here is the comparison, as promised. Not much difference even in 1:1 scale.

The file looks big, but it's actually an 8 1/2 x 11 size paper. (A4 for you, Chris)



Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

John Greenly
This post was updated on .
Rick,

wow, thanks for doing this!  Several interesting things from my standpoint.  First of all, I hadn't paid attention to the cab width dimension before this.  The C&S cabs were much narrower at 7' 10"  than the D&RG cabs at 8' 6 1/2".  This made me go and measure the model, and in fact that cab is 8' 2" wide (outside width), just halfway in between the two prototypes!  So I'll take that as a good omen for my #30.   (By the way, I see that the cabs on both the PFM 2-6-0 and 2-8-0 are the correct 7'10").  

At 8 1/2" narrower and 6" shorter fore-and-aft, we see that the C&S sure liked their cabs snug!  I wonder why this difference from the D&RG?

So then I got curious about other dimensions.  I hadn't actually measured the wheel spacing on the model until now.  The model driver spacing is actually 4'1", 3'3" and 4'1".  For some reason they left a little more room between the middle drivers than the very tight spacing on the prototypes.  Now I have to wonder about that.  The 56 class showed as 37" drivers with a 37" spacing between the middle two.  That's what I would call a close shave!  Something is not quite right there.   In any case, the model is actually very slightly closer to the B-4-A than it is to the C-16.  Microscopic differences in HO scale to be sure, but still, more luck for me!

Now I have a question about boiler diameter.  Would that given dimension be the outer diameter of the boiler itself, or the total diameter over the lagging and sheathing?  On the Westside model the smokebox is 4'2" diameter, agreeing with the C-16 data dimension, while the boiler is almost 4'6".  If that's correct, I guess it implies that the given dimension in the data must be the bare boiler diameter.   What's the right answer?

Here's one very minor correction for your drawing, maybe?  I had noticed one other difference when I first looked at these dimensions: the distance between the first driver axle and the cylinder/stack centerline on the class 56 is listed in the NMRA data as 3' 6 1/2" versus 3'9" on the C-16 and C&S locos.  On your drawing all three are at 3'9".  Is that right?

again, this is great, many thanks for this excellent data reference!

John

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

skip
In reply to this post by John Greenly
John Greenly wrote
I remember when the ad from PFM for the C&S 2-6-0 first appeared on the back cover of Model Railroader.  I REALLY wanted one, but $39.95 was way beyond my pay grade back then.  I didn't know about the Kemtron kit until much later.  I wonder what those cost originally?

John
I bought an On3 one at Caboose Hobbies in the late 1970s. Hold on a minute while I get it off the top shelf. I have the basic structure together. The frame is the hold up. I have an old micro motor but didn't know just how to do the gearbox. I last worked on it back about 1979. I'm just doing my HOn3 stuff right now. I haven't looked at my ON3 stuff in quite a while.
Let's see:
Intermediate C16 On3 Kit
No 3105 $275.00

It had been around for quite a while by then. I wonder what the 1960s prices were?
Now that I think about it, doing an On3 class B4B might be interesting.
Skip Egdorf
Skip Egdorf
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

Lee Gustafson
In reply to this post by John Greenly
John,

Exquisite work in miniature. All of your work is clean and the headlight bracket is an absolute piece of jewelry. Please keep us posted as this project progresses. Thanks for sharing.

Lee Gustafson
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

SteveG
In reply to this post by John Greenly
In case anyone is interested in a (relatively) affordable source for the Faulhaber 1331 motor similar to the one John used, there's a vendor selling them for $59 apiece on eBay, with the possibility of getting a price break on multiple units:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/50-OFF-NEW-FAULHABER-TATTOO-MACHINE-1331T012SR-12-VOLT-DC-MOTORS/163918720406
They are apparently used for tattooing as well, so by ordering one you may spare some now-20-something-year-old the awkwardness of explaining wrinkled and sagging body art to their grandkids someday.

Steve Guty
Lakeway, TX
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

John Greenly
Steve,

yup, that's the one I'm using.  I was lucky to run across several on Ebay a few years ago for under $30 apiece from some liquidating business.  I wondered then what sort of a business this was--  I guess it probably was a tattoo equipment supplier.  Now I know I did the world a favor by taking them out of that market!!

These are expensive, but what a wonderful motor, significantly better at super-low speeds than the very good skew-wound motors that NWSL carries.   This is the closest I've ever seen to the "ideal" DC motor-  absolutely smooth rotation with no cogging whatsoever, exceptionally low starting voltage and current so speed is essentially linear with voltage, and current almost proportional to load.   Full torque right from zero speed on up.  A disclaimer here: I should say that I don't have DCC in my locos yet, just plain old DC, so can't judge how these would be in DCC operation.  Maybe someone with experience could comment?  I'd be interested.

John
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

Don Gustavson II
Very interesting thread..
I have several brass HOn3 C&S locos I need to get going.
HOn3 is the path I have chosen.
The Nearly Historical Railroad.
http://www.nhrailroad.com/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

Rick Steele
In reply to this post by John Greenly
Hi John,

I didn't use the NMRA spec sheet to make these drawings. I used the Original sheets from The Helper. They are copies of copies, but if anyone is interested, I can scan them and upload them.

The D&RG sheets are for 2-8-0's only

The C&S sheet is 2-6-0's and 2-8-0's.

Rick
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

John Greenly
Hey Rick,

don't you think these would be good to add to the Files section on the blog- at least the C&S ones.  Maybe I would be forgiven for suggesting the Rio Grande ones too-- just for comparison, of course, not that anybody's interested in them for themselves....

John
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

Rick Steele
I can do that John, I made a couple of updates, as the NMRA had all of the 2-6-0's listed as B-4-A

I'll just put both of them in one .pdf and then you can print the one that you want. I will see what other C&S Specific files they have and put those in as well.

But let me finish with the Bogies first, there is a last part that I need to scan and upload.

Rick
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

John Greenly
Hi Rick,

thanks so much!   You've already contributed greatly to our community resources.  

Obviously, no hurry on this addition, but I'm sure it will be consulted and valued by others besides me.

thanks,
John
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: C&S #30, a C-16 conversion

Rick Steele
I don't mind sharing what I have. I was told by a friend one time that "Knowledge is Power" and that I should keep all this stuff to myself.

That's ridiculous. Having knowledge about a subject that seems to have had its records scattered to the four winds and those who actually worked there now pushing daisies it seems to me that it should be a group effort.

I will try to post as much as I have and hopefully others will come up with more.

Rick
12