C&S #1000

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C&S #1000

Keith Hayes
This post was updated on .
Last year I purchased the unpainted model of C&S 1000. It was the last of the four waycars in my fleet, and the only unpainted model. I have completed lettering the other models, and then Derrell had to go and show off with his Sound Car install. I selected this model as my test victim.

Though I posted images of the wipers and chip wiring on Derrell's post, here are a couple for easy reference.


It has been a long time since I painted a brass model. I washed the parts in soap and water and let them dry. Next came a bath in the Ultrasonic cleaner. And after another air dry, a coat of Krylon primer. So far, so good. The crew is enjoying a break while the paint dries. We will give it a 50/50 coat of caboose and boxcar red next week.

And while I am waiting Derrell, when the sound car is consisted with the Loco, will F3 activate bot the locomotive whistle and the air whistle on the caboose?
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S #1000

Derrell Poole
I'm sure it can Keith. But read the manuel which should tell you all you need to know.  I haven't gotten that far yet.
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Re: C&S #1000

Keith Hayes
This post was updated on .
Derrell, there is a CV for this function, but it is hard to tell from the description what the variables do.
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S #1000

Derrell Poole
Which CV?
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Re: C&S #1000

Keith Hayes
21 and 22. The explanation is rather terse, and will require some experimenting to see how they impact operation.

I gather that Soundtraxx has put some thinking into the settings, and provided a rudimentary caboose or passenger car setup for a fellow like me. But, the documentation lacks a bit of explaining that would provide some depth.

Now I am examining my coach fleet with an eye towards adding Sound Car chips in them as well. Derrell, I may yet take you up on your suggestion to replace the Overland trucks with PBL trucks. As near as I can tell, both are based on MCB designs. If I take the large outside balance arm off the PBL trucks, and add a piece of brass strip under the lower equalizer bar, the truck will both be better operating and have a power pickup!

I got some of the goo strips you recommended, and I think installing the chips on the ceiling with the speaker on the floor at the end should pretty well conceal the installation, even at the high level of my layout.

But first--or second--I should add the Current Keeper to a locomotive before Darel checks up on me.
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S #1000

Derrell Poole
"The explanation is rather terse, and will require some experimenting to see how they impact operation"

Bingo!
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Re: C&S #1000

Jim Courtney
In reply to this post by Keith Hayes
I have replaced all of the Overland trucks on my coaches with P-B-L ready to operated passenger trucks, by the same process that you described.  All actually roll now and the built in brass pick ups from the axles will make adding light / sound decoders much easier.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S #1000

Keith Hayes
Jim, please post a photo of your modified truck!
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S #1000

Jim Courtney
This post was updated on .
If I ever get home from this weekend work stint in the NICU, I'll try to post some tomorrow.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S #1000

Derrell Poole
In reply to this post by Keith Hayes
304_2
304_1

304 is just about ready to paint. After painting I'll finish the windows including the glass and install the DCC.
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Re: C&S #1000

Jim Courtney
Beautiful work Derrell.  We seem to be on the same page; my 300 hopes to look as good!
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S #1000

Keith Hayes
In reply to this post by Derrell Poole
Race you to the paint booth?
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S #1000

Derrell Poole
In reply to this post by Derrell Poole
 Tale of a Tail
304 Monkey Tail_1
First iteration - not even close.

304 Monkey Tail_2
ehhhh.... YUK!

304 Monkey Tail_3
Well - for a quickie scratchbuilt... okay.

304 end detail
304's end, overall. Everybody who is "correcting" pre 1912 C&S bobbers raise your hand. Everybody who is detailing their OMI Sn3 Cabooses raise your hand. Y'all owe us photos at your earliest convenience - since you've taken it upon yourself to glean information from this blog. One must pay the piper....

I've been keeping an eye on which end of the cabooses seem to be tied to the trains and frankly it doesn't seem to be particularly one way or the other. BUT it does seem like most of the time 304 / 1003 has lanterns on the A end regardless of how it is tied to the train.  More study of course but I think we need a lot of input on this. I've set 304 up like this and will mostly run the car with the A end to the rear. Once it is painted I'll install the lamps and electronics.

How were they lettered? The June 1906 Common Standard called for BIG Block lettering with small "Colorado & Southern" underscoring. This is pretty obvious from the few pre 1912 photos we have (note the car on page 287 Platte Canyon Memories..."). But also clearly this Herald would not have fit 306 & 310 or any other car that had an inconvenient window arrangement. It is therefore likely the Herald was adapted with smaller (perhaps 24" high) figures much like the car on page 84 of the same Volume.

After the reno'g. in the early months of 1912 it seems that a new form of the Herald was applied to some of the cars as (perhaps 24" high) closely spaced figures like that of 1002 at Idaho Springs (also posted at "8-Wheeled").

I'll probably use the Big Blocks on this car as they will fit... but we'll see. Of course I'm interested in thoughts of others.
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Re: C&S #1000

Jim Courtney
Count me in!

I'm working on re-detailing two Overland Sn3 models to c1909:


My photographic skills need to be worked on!


Both have finished soaking off their clear coating and have had their "modern" details removed.

The car on the left will be "300" (later 1000); the car on the right will be "303" (later 1002).

Next is slowly applying new details per the few available photos.

I have some observations on the early rebuilds between 1908 and 1912, that I will try to post for discussion later tonight or tomorrow.  Rather than further high-jack Keith's thread on his 1000, I will start in a new topic.
Jim Courtney
Poulsbo, WA
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Re: C&S #1000

Keith Hayes
In reply to this post by Keith Hayes
Nice monkey tail, Darrell.

Damn it, you had to go and install markers. Well, I happen to have some, but had already primed this hack, so drilled for the markers and wires and proceeded to apply a coat of red: 50/50 caboose and boxcar as I believe Mr. Steele recommends.

I consulted Pictorial Vol. VIII and agree that these cars left the yard in whichever direction they were last spotted. Unlike D&RG cabeese, C&S cars only have a single brake wheel. However, the  coupola is not always on the 'B' end. 1000 and 1009 have the coupola on the 'A' end, while 1005 and 1008 are opposite. For those not in the know, the brake cylinder 'points ' to the 'B' end, and this is the end of the car with the brake wheel.

I like the look of a caboose running coupola first, however models require us to make choices,  and I will likely place my markers on the coupola end.

Oh, well.
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S #1000

Robert McFarland
I have seen photos of C&S cabooses  in freight trains with the marker lamps at the front of the car.
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Re: C&S #1000

Keith Hayes
In reply to this post by Jim Courtney
No worries about hijacking, Jim. And no worries about the photo quality. I just use the camera on my phone. So far, so good.
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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Re: C&S #1000

Chris Walker
In reply to this post by Robert McFarland
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Re: C&S #1000

Derrell Poole
Among others....

The position of the lanterns on the corners and the "forward" facing lenses suggest that even if the markers were on the "wrong" end of the car at least one lantern could probably still be see from the rear. I place the lamps on 304's A end because that seemed to be the more common placement - regardless of which way the car was connected to the train to me. On a model it isn't like you can just take them off and switch ends.

Lamps on B end
of course that might just be a matter of perception...
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Re: C&S #1000

Keith Hayes
...yet again proving there is a prototype for everything!

Well, now I can sleep soundly at night and run with the markers forward.

I do find it strange that the Brass Hat would not take the time to move the markers from one end of the car to the other. It is not like it is a long walk. Is it also fair to point out here that when running between Denver and Leadville, the waycar would have to move from one end of the train to the other, perhaps accounting for more than a few of the instances where the Conductor did not choose to move the markers. That plus the train owned the line with no following sections.

Upside Down C, what do you suppose is the 'Milwaukee-like' logo on the boxcar in the first photo? Is this too late for a broadside or other poster or advert? (Perhaps, upon closer inspection, it is just the circular trademark?)
Keith Hayes
Leadville in Sn3
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